OR Final Discussion
We will have a Socratic Seminar next week. We are going to have some practice discussion here. Feel free to respond to the below questions. You may also pose questions (not simple plot based questions) or thoughtful ponderings here as well.
1) Many of us adhere to the belief that if we work hard and put forth a good effort we will be rewarded. How does the outcome of Oedipus Rex contradict or support that? You may want to rethink the word “reward” for this one. 2) How is Oedipus like an archetypal hero? To what extent is like or unlike a modern day hero? What fine distinctions can you draw between our modern day heroes (Superman, Spiderman, Hancock) and Oedipus Rex? 3) Remember when I told you the archetypal hero was “dumb”–clueless to the collective unconscious—in what ways is Oedipus totally unaware of his self and his true identity? 4) Normally, when I teach this play we go through the ways that Oedipus is like a detective and how the clues he seeks are the clues to his life, trace how this happens in the play. Why do you think it takes Oedipus so long to put these clues together–he’s no dumbie, so why the drawn out process?
Please respond by Friday, 1/22/10 at 3:30 p.m. Remember, grammar, punctuation, and spelling always count. Be clear, concise and insightful. Use examples from the play to PROVE your points.
The outcome of Oedipus Rex contradicts the belief that if we work hard and put forth a good effort we will be rewarded. Oedipus put a lot of effort into finding Laius’s killer, but in the end, only hurt himself and his family. On lines 287-448, Oedipus questions Teiresias. He gets answers, but not the ones that he wants. Oedipus casts aside Teiresias’s words and blames Creon for Teiresias’s words. Lines 944-996, Oedipus questions a messenger who brings news of his “father’s” death. Again, Oedipus finds himself discovering details that would be best left untold. He questions a shepherd on lines 1057-1123, and ends up realizing the whole truth, a devastating truth indeed. By working hard to find the killer, Oedipus uncovered secrets that he and Jocasta couldn’t handle. Jocasta takes her life, and Oedipus blinds himself to rid themselves of these horrors.
Oedipus is an archetypal hero because he gives something up to do what is right. Superman could settle down with Lois Lane, but he has to choose between her and saving the world. Some things are bigger than what the hero wants. Oedipus, a scorned man, is willing to exile himself to free his beloved people in Thebes from the plague he brought upon them. He makes this clear to Creon in line 1460. He wants the best for his children, evidenced in lines 1408-1410, while he knows he cannot give it to them. Oedipus is unlike a modern-day hero because he was born into wealth, with two parents who loved him, unlike several heroes who had major misfortune in their early life.
Oedipus didn’t know that his true parents were not from Corinth. He didn’t know that his wife was his mother, or that his father died at his own hand. Oedipus believed himself to be a majestic ruler, only to find that his actions have left him more lowly than the shepherd that saved him from death as an infant.
I believe Oedipus takes so long to put together these clues because Sophocles wanted to build the suspense up in the story. Oedipus could’ve understood who he was and what he’d done when he first talked with Teiresias, but he never would have discovered the complete story: that his mother is also his wife, that his father was Laius, and that his children are also his siblings.
Just a couple questions that have been buzzing around my head: Was it really necessary for Jocasta to kill herself? She still had children and a city to rule. She left behind all that responsibility that someone else will have to carry.
What would you guys do if you were Oedipus? Creon? Jocasta? If I were Jocasta, I would not have taken my life. It is, of course, very startling to learn that your husband is also your son, but you have other children to think of. The news of what had taken place would’ve reach her children, and if I were her, I would not have wanted to leave my children unprotected from harsh words and actions because of their twisted parenthood. If I were Oedipus or Creon, I would have done as they both did (with the exception of the blinding. I understand why Oedipus took action, but it was pretty extreme.) After all the trouble Oedipus caused, it was only fitting that he depart to restore order to Thebes. I liked that Creon was willing to give Oedipus his “final” wishes. It shows that even after all Oedipus’s horrid actions were revealed, that Creon still had some respect for his scorned friend.
I believe that the outcome of Oedipus Rex contradicts the thought that if we work hard and put forth a good effort we will be rewarded. I say this because Oedpius is ruling Thebes with passion and truly cares about the city. This is shown when he vows to find Laius’ killer only to save his city from the plague. However, he is shadowed by a past unbenounced to him. He couldn’t change his past even if he knew about it. The fact that he puts forth all this effort in ruling Thebes only to figure out he married and slept with his mother and killed his dad, is the worst reward i’ve ever heard of.
Oedipus is like an archetypal hero beacause he tries to defeat the shadow, which in my opinion is his past, and tries to understand the collective unconscious. Oedipus also shows when he denies killing Laius that he has an ego which we all identify with. He is like a modern hero because he has a choice to do what is right or wrong. For example he could just lay back so to speak and not try to find the truth about his past or he can hunt for answers to figure out about himself. He is also troubled by his past and this is his tragic flaw and like most modern heroes they to have tragic flaws. He is unlike a modern day hero because he is oblivious to his past whereas most superheroes know their past and have to live with it everday in agony.
Oedipus is very much unaware of his own identity. This is shown when he denies any chance of him killing Laius or marrying his mother. He totally believes that he is from Corinth and that his parents rule there. He couldn’t be more misleaded becasue now he thinks there is no chance of him doing anything the prophocies say. I also think that this collective unknowning is deeper than just the confusion it brings. This creates the whole plot in the aspect that if Oedipus didn’t have these unfortunes there wouldn’t be a story. On the other hand, the archetype Family Bond pops up in my head because the bloodline bonds cause this event to be so catastrophic to Oedipus, Jocasta and the rest of Thebes.
I just want to start off with i didn’t really like Oedipus Rex. I understand how some people can like it but it just doesn’t really appeal to me. I just think the plot line is pretty messed up from beginning to end. That said, Oedipus Rex is pretty much the definition of dramatic irony. All his life, Oedipus thinks he is living a great life and is being successful while the entire audience knows he is living a huge lie. Also, Jocasta thinks she met a great young man who saved the city of Thebes, when in all reality she is marries the son who she sentenced to death the moment he was born. In the end though, Oedipus proves he is mentally tougher than his mother was when Jocasta kills herself and Oedipus blinds himself. I believe Creon represents logic. When Oedipus accuses Creon of paying off the prophet, Creon tries to force reason upon Oedipus but is unsuccessful. Also after Oedipus sees the truth, Creon sees Oedipus was just a simple man who was scared of the truth.
The belief that if we work hard and put forth good effort we will be rewarded is supported in Oedipus Rex. As king of Thebes, Oedipus promises his city that he will find and exile Laius’s murderer in lines 134 to 145. He then talks to Teiresias, who attempts to tell him that he is the murderer as in line 347. Oedipus refuses to believe this but continues to question people and collect more clues pointing to the conclusion that he is the murderer of Laius. He questions the shepherd about the child he found, and the shepherd’s reply in lines 1112-1118 about saving a child who was left for death, shows Oedipus that he, indeed is the killer.
So distraught from this news, he makes himself blind (which may be ironic seeing as he was blind to his true identity all along). Oedipus then asks Creon in lines 1397-1405 to exile him from Thebes. He puts himself through mental and emotional torture in order to exile the killer of Laius. In the end he does fulfill his promise, and thus the plague is lifted from Thebes. This reward may not have come personally to Oedipus, but to the city he ruled over.
Oedipus is so obviously in denial- he is most definitely not a dumbie. It seemed so impossible that he would be the same boy that his wife sent to the hills with bound feet all those years ago. I’d be in denial too! Oedipus is unaware of the “collective unconscious” not because he is stupid, but because he thought he knew his parents and he thought Jocasta’s son was dead and gone. He left his home with the best intentions of saving his own family, only to kill his father and bed his mother. But I genuinely believe Oedipus wanted nothing but the opposite of this. Sure, Oedipus worked hard for everything he recieved–and he recieved much, becoming king–but he didn’t recieve a personal reward. (Was he even looking for one?) Megan is completely correct, Oedipus followed through with his promise and lifted the plague from Thebes. Reward enough in my eyes. Oedipus wasn’t purposely a “bad” man in my opinion.
Yet I am still confused… Why did he strike at his eyes with the golden brooches?? I feel like the gold to his eyes must have some deeper meaning that I am having difficulty tuning in to. (But I must admit that the idea Megan presents about the irony of blindness to Oedipus makes sense. I’m just curious if there is an allusion to gold or blindness or both that I am missing.)
I think Oedipus is punishing himself more than anyone else would. I do believe he should accept what punishment he would willingly have given any other man, but was blindness necessary before that? Right now, I’m looking at Oedipus as a self-pitying, blubbering fool. (Is that insensitive?) And, also, Jocasta had other responsibilities to worry about. She did not need to kill herself. Compared to what Oedipus was going through, was her reaction really justified?
The end of Oedipus Rex definitly contradicts the idea that if we work really hard and put forward a good effort then we will be rewarded. In the end of the play Oedipus doesn’t get a reward. Throughout the play Oedipus vigilantly looks for the killer of King Laius. He questions many people and even asks the city of Thebes to help him in his investigation. He is not however rewarded in the end because he finds out that he is really the murderer of King Laius. He is very shocked by this and he ends up going into exile because of what he did even though he had worked really hard in the investigation.
Oedipus is the archetypal hero because he is unaware of the collective unconscious. He is unaware that he is really the murderer of King Laius throughout the entire play almost. He is clueless and unaware of what he has done until the collective unconscious is finally revealed to him near the end of the play. This is when the sheperd reluctantly tells Oedipus that he is Jocasta’s son and that he was the one who murdered the entire caravan including King Laius.
Oedipus is completely unaware of his identity throughout pretty much the whole play. He knows of the prophecy that he will kill his dad so he got away from who he thought was his dad and went to Thebes. He came across a man who told him to get out of the way and he killed him and his servants. He didn’t even think about the prophecy until Thebes had a fatal plague and the only way to get rid of it was to catch Laius’s killer. He never started to figure it out. He had to be told what happened and then he finally knew that Laius was his father and Jocasta was his mother and his wife.
I think it took Oedipus so long to figure it out because he wasn’t thinking about the prophecy becasue he thought he was far from his “problem” or who he thought was his dad. He completely forgot about the prophecy until the new evidence the one servant that survived the attack brought to life.
Megan, I think you have a really good point about Thebes getting a reward. I hadn’t stopped to think about the rewards of anyone else besides Oedipus, and now that it’s been brought to attention, it’s very clear. Thebes is rewarded, but Oedipus’s family is not. You had another great idea with the irony of Oedipus making himself blind. It’s even mentioned in the play when Oedipus talks to Teiresias. In line 352, Teiresias tells Oedipus “You cannot see the evil.” Oedipus, instead of hearing the warning behind these words, calls Teiresias a “child of endless night” (359). It’s like Nick said, dramatic irony is what Sophocles was all about.
Ashley, I’m not sure if there was any hidden meaning behind the brooches, aside from the irony of him blinding himself, like Megan mentioned. The only possible explanation I could have would be to say that the brooches were Jocasta’s, and maybe it was Oedipus’s way of making sure Jocasta got a little justice out of the matter. Possibly him saying ‘I’m sorry’ to her?
I feel that Oedipus Rex contradicted the belief that with hard work and great effort comes rewards because he worked so hard to solve the riddle then to find King Lauis’s murderer. However, in the end he is not rewarded, in fact, in a way, punished. He realizes that the oracle did come true, that he did kill his father and marry his mother. And once Jocasta is found dead, Oedipus causes himself to go blind by piercing his eyes. He then begs Creon to send him far away where no one can see him. In my opinion, I don’t see any reward Oedipus got out of his hard work.
Oedipus is like an archetypal hero because he does everything he can to save the people of Thebes from the plague. He is cluless about his true identity because he is completely unaware of the collective unconscious untill the end of the play. He does not believe that Laius was his father or that Jocasta was his mother until it was proven by the messanger of Cithaeron in Scene 4.
Oedipus traces the clues to his life by questioning everyone that crosses his path such as Creon, Teiresias, the messenger, and the shepard. Each one of these characters tells Oedipus something that gets him a little bit closer to the truth. I think Oedipus took so long to figure out the truth because it built up the suspense in the story.
As a reply to Michelle’s first question, if I were Jocasta, althought i would be comppletely devastated that I married my own son, I still would not have taken my own life. Jocasta stills has kids to look after and the city of Thebes to run. Yea Creon is there, but to the kids, nothing is the same as having your own mother take care of you.
Oedipus Rex was one of the greatest tragedies I have ever read. It is so undoubtedly the epitome of dramatic irony. The plot was so twisted it was ridiculous. Oedipus was a great king even though worry constantly hung over his head. Risking everything he goes insane trying to find the one responsible for Laius as he is desperate to save his kingdom from the sure doom marked upon it. Tragically he learns that he himself is the killer.
Oedipus is an archetypal hero and this is because he is willing to drop everything even before he learned of his tragic past. Irony in this is that he demands to save to city he loves so much from a plague that he himself had cast upon it. He is both like and unlike the modern hero. He is like the modern hero in the sense that he comes from a troubling pass and does his best to save the day much like Batman. Then again he is unlike the modern hero as usually in comics and television shows the hero always prevails and walks away with the girl like Spiderman or Superman. But in the end all it is all lost for poor Oedipus.
He is so unaware of who he is. That I mean apart from physically but mentally. He is truly his own worst enemy in every possible way. He tries his hardest to overcome every obstacle that stands in his path as to keep order and justice above everything and in the end makes the brave choice of making sure everything that was in his way has been dealt with including himself.
What makes him unlike the archetype hero is I do not believe he is completely oblivious to the collective unconscious. He grasps the concept in the beginning and he quickly grabs a hold of it very much before the end of the play.
I think he takes awhile to put it all together without being a moron just because he wants to make sure everything he does is done thoroughly covered from all angles as to ensure the best possibilities for the people of Thebes and his family.
I agree with Erin that would be completely tragic but it wouldn’t be a good enough reason to escape.
Then again we do not know how it felt for her and in that case we cannot say if it wasn’t a good choice or not. Especially since her mentally stability was dropping like crazy since everything she thought was truth had turned against her, and possibly that had pushed her off the edge.
The outcome of Oedipus Rex definately contradicts the belief that if you work hard you will be rewarded. The outcome is contradictory to this belief because, like a lot of people have already said, Oedipus did work hard. First of all, I’m sure that ruling a country is no walk in the park. Remember when Creon was explaining why it would be dumb for him to be in a plot to murder Oedipus. He even said why would I want to have the stresses of being a king when I can enjoy all of its benefits already. Second, Oedipus did work extremely hard to find King Laius’ murderer. He truly wanted to find the man responsible for this wrongdoing and have him severely punished. He sent for Teiresia so that he could be given some answers. When this did not satisfiy him, he sent for a messenger to see what he had to offer the situation, and when that didn’t work, he went to the lengths of sending for a shepherd. In the end, he is burdened with the sad truth and has to live with the immense guilt he feels. That is definately not a proper reward for all his efforts, let alone a reward at all.
Oedipus is definately an archetypal hero. One of the main reasons is because he is completely unaware of the collective unconscious. Throughout the majority of the play, Oedipus is unaware of the fact that he killed King Laius, his father, and that Jocasta is actually his mother. Only in the end is he finally able to realize the truth after being given many “clues” and after the shepherd tells him who and what he really is. Without this aid, he never would’ve been able to guess at who he truly is, and he would’ve remained ignortant of his place in life forever. Oedipus is similar to our modern day heroes because they all try to do things for the greater good. Even though he was king, Oedipus still did what he knew he had to do and left Thebes. Oedipus is unlike our modern day heroes though because he doesn’t have any superpowers like Superman or Spiderman. Also, in the society we have today, the hero would be working towards fixing/saving much different things. Oedipus saved Thebes by solving a riddle and trying to solve the mystery of who killed King Laius. Today, the heroes job is to jump into burning buildings to save people or to stop a bus from tumbling off a broken bridge.
Oedipus isn’t a stupid man, and I think the reason the process of Oedipus discovering who he is was so drawn out is because Sophocles wanted to lay on the dramatic irony really thick and make it so that you had no idea when Oedipus was finally going to realize the truth. In order for Sophocles to do this, I think it was necessary for him to make the process lengthy. Sophocles didn’t want it to seem like Oedipus understood where this whole story was headed for. If he had made the play like that, it would’ve really taken away from what he was trying to accomplish. So to answer the question, I don’t think it was that the character, Oedipus, is an idiot, which is why the process would be so drawn out, I just think that is how Sophocles wanted the play to be.
I agree with Erin, Oedipus is not rewarded for his work in trying to find King Laius’s murder. Instead Oedipus is punished for what he did. Oedipus is like a modern day hero by that he is unaware of the collective unconcious and doesnt realize the truth of his fathers death and how he married his mother. The only difference between him and heroes now is that he ended up being the bad guy and in modern hero stories the are the good guys. Oedipus doesnt realize that he is searching for himself. I think that he starts to realize what he did and doesnt what to admit it to himself. Oedipus started uncovering the clues to his life and as human nature would have it he couldnt stop pushing for the truth and the truth was his downfall.
I believe that Oedipus was rewarded for solving the sphynx’s riddle. He was made king of Thebes, married, had children, and was loved by his people. I also believe that Oedipus’s outcome at the end of the novel was “punishment” for murdering his father and having children with his mother. When I think of the story of Oedipus Rex, it reminds me of karma. He did good deeds so he was rewarded; he did bad deeds, therefore he was punished.
To answer the first question Oedipus Rex completely contradicts the statement that if you work hard you will be rewarded. Oedipus spends all his time during the play trying to discover who killed King Laius, but in the end instead of being rewarded he is stricken and left with nothing in return for his effort. Oedipus is like the typical archetypal hero in the sense that he saved his city from the reign of terror by the Spinx. He is unlike the archetypal hero however, because like Kibben said he is totally unaware of what happened in his past. The average hero would normally have a troubled past that would force them to seek redemption and purpose in life. Oedipus has no clue who his true family is and who he is himself. Also, Oedipus may be considered both the hero and the shadow in the play, because his intentions are good but the result of his actions turn him into the bad guy in the end. Oedipus does not know who his true family is, what has happened in his past, and truly does not know his own identity. I believe it took Oedipus so long to discover the truth of the mystery, because he didn’t want to believe the truth. Oedipus exhausted all other possible suspects for the murder of King Laius in hopes that he would not have been involved in the crime. Maybe Oedipus was going through denial towards the end of the play and he just couldn’t accept his dark past. So, do you think Oedipus was going through a stage of denial or was there another reason it took him so long to unravel the mystery of King Laius’ murder?
I think OR proves this point. He workd hard to solve the sphinx’s riddle he was rewarded mwith a kingdom, a family, riches, and power.
It also diproves the theory. He worked hard to achieve what he had but in the end it was all taken away in disgrace and humiliation.
But I mean when you think about it he didn’t purposely do bad deeds. Karma works where you do something good and something good happens, yes?
Then why wasn’t he rewarded in the end for stopping all the woe and misery?
It’s almost like that other story we read where there was a section where the gods claimed the guilty and the innocent shall suffer equally.
It just goes to show there isn’t always a happy ending which Sophocles captured perfectly.
The belief that if we work hard and put forth a good effort we will be rewarded is supported by Oedipus Rex. Oedipus promises the people of Thebes that he will find Laius’s murderer and exile him. Oedipus talks to Tiresias and denies that he is the murderer. Even so he tries to find out if it is true. He learns the truth from the shepherd and the messenger about his parentage and that he did in fact kill Laius. He tells Creon to exile him thus fulfilling his promise. Thebes is saved from the plague. This is Oedipus’s reward, the country that he has ruled is saved, granted its not the best reward out there.
Oedipus is like an archtypal hero becouse he does what is nesseccary to save his people even if that means exiling himself. He defeats the shadow which is the plague and the mystry of Laius’s murder. He could have decided not to dig deeper to find the truth and not to punish himself. The fact that he did makes him a hero. Like modern heros, Oedipus has to make a choice, to not find the truth or find the truth and suffer the consequences. Just as Superman and Spiderman had to give up their normal lives to save the world, Oedipus had to give up everything to save his people and do what is right.
To answers Michelle’s question: If I were Jocasta I would not have killed myself. Now that Oedipus is gone Thebes needs her and her children need. What happened in the past doesn’t have to affect your future. It is all up to you.
Oedipus is “dumb”. He is unaware of his true identity because he believed that his parents were the rulers of a totally different city-state than Thebes. He doesn’t know that Jocasta’s “dead” son was really himself. When he starts to figure it out, he makes excuses to remain in denial of who he really is. He gets clue after clue, but he still doesn’t want to believe it because it would be awful. He doesn’t want to know that he killed his real father and had children with his mother.
I agree with Michelle’s statement that he ends up being lower than the shepherd. This is true because he refused to believe what was right in front of him. Teiresias tells him the truth in the beginning, but Oedipus believes that Creon is committing treason. He is “dumb” because he refuses to acknowledge the collective unconscious.
I think it was really selfish and unthoughtful of Jocasta to take her own life. I agree with Katy, Thebes was already suffering from an illness and lost their previous king, the last thing they need is the queen to kill herself. Jocasta should have stepped up, and provided a sense of order to Thebes. If I were Oedipus, I would not have blinded myself either. I understand that he was freaked out that he was married to his mother and killed his own father, but he had no way of knowing who they were; It wasn’t his fault that his parents left him on a hillside to die. I probably would have left Thebes, but I wouldn’t have punished myself anymore than what I really deserved.
What I noticed throughout the play is how brilliantly Sophocles laid out the clues for detective Oedipus. The reason Oedipus ran into his father at the crossroads was because he wanted to make sure his oracle didn’t became true. He was trying to run from his fate, but really he was running to it. The whole reason any of this occured was because Jocasta, Laius, and Oedipus tried to run from their fate. Would the predication have came true if Jocasta and Laius kept Oedipus?
Also I was wondering if anyone noticed the motif of sight/blindness. Only the blind could really “see” the truth. Teiresias was physically blind, but he knew that Oedipus was the murderer. When Oedipus finally realized the truth, he too blinded himself.
The outcome of Oedipus Rex contradicts the belief that if we work hard and put forth a good effort we will be rewarded. He answered the Sphinx’s riddle to stop her raid on the city. Oedipus also said he would work hard to try to save Thebes (68-72). And he did. He tried to stop the plague and death by vowing to avenge Laius’s murder, and he worked hard to find the killer. He questioned the messenger, shepherd, and Teiresias. However, he quickly dismissed any information they had that he didn’t want to hear. Oedipus was rewarded with a family and kingdom for stopping the Sphinx, but it was taken away from him. Did he deserve that award though? After all of his ignorance to see the truth about Laius’s murder, and his hot temper and threats that he imposed on people only trying to help, is pain and humiliation a just reward? I think it is. So in a way, Oedipus was rewarded for his actions, just not for the good ones. Like Natalie said, its Karma.
Oedipus is like an archetypal hero in many ways. He defeated the bad guy (the Sphinx), saved the maiden (Jocasta) from the pain of her husband’s death, and he is definitely unaware of the collective unconscious and the truth about Laius’s murderer. He is also like a modern day hero because fought for good, and tried to honestly do the best he could for Thebes. However, our modern heroes always have a happy ending. Good always triumphs over evil. Batman always beats the Joker, Superman always defeats Lex Luthor, and Spiderman aways stops the green goblin. They save the day and manage to get the girl at the same time. However, after Oedipus saved the day and got the girl, he lost it all. Jocasta killed herself and the city was taken from him. His worst fears came true and he had a tragic ending with death and humiliation.
Oedipus is completely unaware of his true identity simply because he didn’t know he was his father’s killer and his mother’s husband. He is therefore “dumb” and clueless to the collective unconscious. However, I wouldn’t call him an idiot. The reason it took him so long to put together the puzzle pieces was because he was in self denial. He was refusing to believe the prophecy was correct and he had slept with his mother and killed his father. Why would he? That coming true would be the worst thing in the world, so he might as well enjoy what little time he has left to be ignorant.
Oedipus Rex contradicts the belief that if we work hard and put forth a good effort because at the end of the book he blinds himself and Jocasta kills herself. Oedipus worked hard to find King Laius’ murder but only hurt himself. He put forth a good effort but only found out that he was Jocasta’s son who was supposedly dead. Jocasta couldn’t handle this and killed herself. Oedipus could not handle Jocasta’s death and said that everywhere he looked there was horror. It was because of this that Oedipus blinded himself with Jocasta’s brooch. All of this happened because he worked hard and put forth a good effort and found out that he had to exile himself because he was King Lauis’ murderer.
Johnny, I agree with you. It is interesting how Sophocles used blindness throughout the novel. It seems as though the characters are blind to the truth figuratively, and then become physically blind when they discover the truth.
I agree with Michelle’s opinion about how Oedipus is similar and different from an archetypal hero. Oedipus does what is best for everyone else, rather than himself. He proves this 1382-1387 when he tells Creon to banish him and that he must be destroyed. Oedipus knows that this will be a terrible experience for him, yet he does it for the greater good.
You guys never cease to amaze me! 🙂 Most of you noticed the blindess/knowledge connection. What about this conundrum—let’s accept this as truth, just for a second, Oedipus is wise (he solved the riddle of the Sphinx, the beginning of the play all the Thebans love him for his leadership and wisdom). Why then is the mystery of his “self,” his true self, so difficult to solve? Even when he is hit over the head with the clues, he still misses them. It is simple (and a cop out) to just say he was dumb. What message is Sophocles implying when a truly wise man (Oedipus) with an insatiable thirst for knowledge can’t figure out this mystery?
The idea of working hard and being rewarded for it is is contradicted in Oedipus Rex. Oedipus searches day and night for answers about King Laius’s unfortunate death, and about who Oedipus really is. He does all this work just to come to a halting stop as he uncovers the meanings of his oracles, and the history of him and his family, and the reality behind Lauis’s death.
In the end, in a way, Oedipus is rewarded. He is rewarded with the truth. He learns of the mystery he has been uncovering. Even though it was not a good “truth”, it was still the truth. It would have been better if he had not found out, but it was himself who wanted the truth. He got the news he did not want, but it was he who was sticking his nose in it in the first place. This can be analyzed in marriages, if the husband or wife cheats. The spouse may start to try to uncover the mystery. They will eventually, but will be upset with what they find, but rewarded with truth.
Oedipus can be compared to a modern day hero. He has powers, such as his royalty, and a mystery to solve. He is definitely unaware of the collective unconscious, and everything else around him for that matter. Like most superheros, it takes someone without powers to help them succeed in their quest. For example, Hancock needs Ray Embrey to show him who he really is, and Hancock figures out the rest by himself. This is viewable in Oedipus Rex after Oedipus visits the shepherd. The shepherd guides him to start peeling away at the collective unconscious.
I think that the ending of Oedipus Rex supports the belief that if we work hard and put forth a good effort, we will be rewarded. Even though it ended in tragedy, Oedipus still accomplished everything he had set out to do. He wanted to find King Laius’s murderer, and he did just that. No one ever said that the reward had to be good. Oedipus worked hard to find out the truth, and he was rewarded with the truth. I think this is true in real life as well. You can work hard and put a forth a good effort, but sometimes the rewards you get don’t meet your expectations, which is entirely your own fault for making an assumption based on nothing. In the end, Oedipus was harmed more than he was helped, but he still received an “award” for his hard work, in my opinion.
Oedipus Rex contradicts the theory that if you work hard you will be rewarded. Oedipus worked very hard to find the murderer of King Laius, but in the end was “rewarded” with the truth, that he was the murderer. Although someone described as a murderer would not seem to be the hero of a story, Oedipus fits the role of an archetypal hero. He doesnt know he is the murderer throughout the story, and convinces himself he beat fate by running away from his parents. He doesn’t understand the collective unconcious at first, which is exactly what a hero is supposed to do. He was also seen as a powerful and protective figure to the people of Thebes, making him similiar to a modern day hero like Batman.
I think it took Oedipus so long to put the clues together because he didnt want to believe he was the murderer. Although I think Sophocles puposely did that for dramatic effect, Oedipus still had all the clues to the murder, but didnt want to give up everything he knew as true.
In Oedipus Rex, the theory that you will be rewarded if you work hard is contradicted. Oedipus worked hard to figure out the truth but when he found out, I definitely wouldn’t say he was “rewarded.” He found out that he murdered his father. He’s like an archetypical hero in that he’s dumb. He was completely unaware of the collective unconcious. He had no idea who he really was and what he had done. I would say he is like a modern day hero because he is a leader and powerful. However, he doesn’t have a special superpower like superman and spiderman. I think he knew subconciously what the collective unconcious was but he just didn’t want to believe he was capable of murdering his own father without him even knowing it. This is why, I think, it took him so long to put the clues together. He’s definitely not stupid.
Oedipus is truly dumb and is totally unaware of his self and his true identity. This makes him an archetypal hero. Oedipus is clueless about how he killed his dad and is married to his mom. He gets help finding these things out, which make up the collective unconscious, from the messengers. So the messengers are like the old wise man showing the hero the way. Which is another reason Oedipus is an archetypal hero
I do not think Oedipus is dumb like Taylor said. He is just unaware of what happened and it does not occur to him that he was the killer. As a lot of people have said the theory that you will be rewarded if you work hard is contradicted. As Oedipus worked hard to figure out the murder and he found out he was the murderer, I defiantly wouldn’t consider that a reward. Every time you work hard for something doesn’t mean you will be rewarded. Like in sports you can bust your butt in practice and still not win the game or score that touchdown/goal/basket.
Ms. Shuja, I believe that Oedipus is blind to himself because it is the hardest thing for him to see. A riddle can be figured out using logic, but to have a man and steal his past from him, calling it a lie, would take some getting used to. I think Sophocles was trying to show that even wise men aren’t immune to succumbing to the mysteries of life without finding many answers.
I truly don’t believe Oedipus is dumb because a dumb man would not have been able to rule a country or solve the sphinx’s riddle. A dumb man would have stayed in Corinth and ignored the prophecy, risking his family’s life. Oedipus understands more than some of our heroes, but he is still blind to himself. This tragic flaw causes his downfall, but does not make him dumb.
In my opinion, reward means a gift or some sort of good thing you receive for working hard. Oedipus Rex contradicts this. Oedipus goes through a lot in his life and persevers to make his life more. In the end, he wasn’t rewarded. He was punished.
Oedipus is like an archetypal hero because he rules a city and discovers the truth. He’s eventually exiled, like most heros. He actually committed the crime so he’s not exactly like the archetypal hero. Spiderman saves his city from villains while Oedipus hunts to find the truth of the King’s death. Spiderman is praised for what he does while Oedipus is put down and looked down on for what he did.
The collective unconscious isn’t seen by Oedipus until the end of the play. He finally realizes who he truly is. In the beginning, he thought his parents were Polybus and Merope. Throughout the play, his true identity and the prophecy are revealed. I think Oedipus takes so long to discover the truth because if i wasn’t the truth he wanted to hear. We tend to block out truths we don’t want to believe or we don’t think are true.
In my opinion, Oedipus is wise and I think by the end of the play he gets who he is. This is why he blinded himslef, so he could block out the truth.
I believe that when you work hard you are rewarded, but in Oedipus Rex, it is not really true. He may have had a good life but when he discovers that he killed his own father and slept with his mother, he blinds himself and exiles himself in shame. He is not rewarded, he is punished for what he did. Some people could argue that he found out his past and that is a reward, but that is not really much of a reward when your also blind and exiled.
Oedipus worked very hard throughout the novel, despite everyones warnings, to find out who he was. But, in the end, he was punished for something he had no control over. Yes, he fulfilled the prophecy by killing his father and sleeping with his mother, but he did not know who they were at the time. So when he found out who he truly was, he blinded himself as “punishment” for his “crime”. However, i don’t see that. I think that he did nothing wrong, and that maybe if Jocasta had told the truth as soon as she found it out, things would have ended differently.
When Oedipus was doing his “detective work”, he tried very hard to find someone who could contradict everything that seemed to fit together all too well. He interrogated everyone he could because, maybe, they would know something no one else did. He didn’t want everything to be true, so he refused to accept what he had done, and kept trying to find loopholes.
We all work hard. We all also have a tendency to expect a reward of some sorts for our good work. I think Oedipus Rex both supports and refutes this. It supports it through Creon. He held tight and worked hard to stay at the status he was, or I think that’s fair to assume. Most people of a higher status have to work to obtain said status. He also worked at being a good friend to Oedipus. He was rewarded by becoming the ruler of Thebes in the end. Oedipus, on the other hand, was not so lucky as to get rewarded. He worked hard with his wit to defeat the sphinx. He worked hard to become king and win over his people and rule a fair kingdom. But, to his unfortunate dismay, he was found to be a man who killed his father, slept with his mother, attempted to murder his bride and gouged out his own eyes. Not so fortunate or rewarding, I’d say.
I think it took Oedipus so long to pull all the clues, or pieces, to the story together because he simply did not want to believe it as true. He didn’t want the prophecy to be found as truthful, so he danced around the truth as much as he could. I think he realized the truth much before he lead on, but wanted others to remain ignorant. But after so long he realized there was no way around it. He knew he was this monster and finally knew he had to admit it or be construed as a liar.
I think this is one reason Oedipus blinded himself. In the beginning we are shown the difference between seeing and “seeing” the truth. Oedipus saw no difference besides “seeing” the truth was sort of a mockery. So at the end he still didn’t want to see the truth, so he made it so he saw nothing at all.
Okay so in the beginning of Oedipus Rex he vows to “work hard” to find the killer of King Lauis. By the end of the play he accomplishes this but at a great cost not reward. He has this challenge that he must overcome and in the end he brings about the end of the plague but in doing so destroys himself. He has this whole alter ego think going on. He is most like superman due to the oracles because superman was born a super hero. He didn’t obtain his greatness by being biten by radio active spiders and what not. He was born with his abilities. Just like Oedipus was destined to kill his dad and sleep with his mom. He was born like that. Although he is unlike superman in the fact that he is human. Superman doesn’t really have the human imperfections, he always understands the collective unconscious and Oedipus has not. He doesn’t realize he is sleeping with his mother and he killed his father. As said in today’s class discussion, we mentioned the drawn out process of Oedipus’s detection and how it was linked to his redemtion. I completely agree that somewhere along the lines he put two and two together and realized his plight (fall from innocence). He was desperate in searching for and trying to find someone to discredit what this theory. Digging deeper until no one could prove him wrong and he was forced to accept it.
I think that throughout the play Oedipus is unaware of his self and his true identity because he just doesn’t want to believe it. In the begining the idea of him killing his father and marrying his mother doesn’t seem plausible. I know that if i were in Oedipus’ place the thought never would have crossed my mind. Even though all the clues are being laid out right in front of him he doesn’t seem to put them together. I don’t believe that this is because he is dumb. I think that it is hard for him to figure out because all of his knowledge is pointing in the opposite direction. For example when he was told that he had laid with his mother that seemed impossible to him because he had no idea that Jocasta and Laius had given him up. For all he knew he left his mother in Corinth.
1 I believe we will be rewarded for working hard and trying out best as long as we have good intentions. The end of Oedipus Rex contradicts that theory, but I believe that is just to create entertainment. I believe that Oedipus is made out to have good intentions and morals just so there is dramatic irony when he loses everything in his life.
2 Oedipus is like an archetypal hero because he was originally an outcast and then he came back and saved his people and became their leader. His parents left him to die, but he ended up back at his place of birth where he saved the city from a sphinx and married his mother. He is unlike a modern hero because he isn’t gifted with extraordinary powers like superman and spiderman.
3 Oedipus is dumb like other heroes because he is unaware of the fate that already awaits him. He learns bits and pieces of his fate and when he acts upon them he makes more of his prophecy come true. In this way he is clueless.
4 I believe Oedipus doesn’t put the clues together because he doesn’t want to know that he killed his father and wed his mother. I believe he is in denial and didn’t want to conclude the mystery with these horrible truths.